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	<title>Comments on: What makes something art?</title>
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	<description>The Blog of CJ Levinson</description>
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		<title>By: Lisa Damian</title>
		<link>http://cjlevinson.com/2008/03/12/what-makes-something-art/#comment-6687</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lisa Damian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cjwriter.wordpress.com/?p=371#comment-6687</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First off -- Love the cartoon!

As for art, I have often pondered the topic of creativity on my own blog, but I haven&#039;t yet explored this question of what makes something art.  For me, there are two dimensions to this answer.

1)  If something is original and fresh yet represents a global truth, an archetype, that resonates with people in a profound way, then certainly that is art.

2)  Additionally, if something speaks to me personally, if it hits a chord, produces some sort of emotion and rings true, regardless of whether or not anyone else feels the same way, then to me, that is also art.

&lt;strong&gt;CJ: Hi Lisa, I&#039;m so glad you liked the cartoon! It still makes me laugh now weeks later, which is the sign of a good cartoon.

I think that&#039;s a great way to look at art. Art (and certainly high art) should be original and reveal something about the world that we haven&#039;t seen before... I suppose the only problem is that what one person might call original another might think is a copy or doesn&#039;t move them. But then quality is always in the eye of the beholder, isn&#039;t it?

I&#039;m definitely with you on #2. I couldn&#039;t tell you how many books I&#039;ve read that I found so beautiful I thought they were a work of art, even if no one else quite got them... so perhaps that&#039;s the most important criteria, that it means something to us. If it does then it probably means something to someone else too.

Thanks for stopping by. I&#039;ll pop across to see your blog later. ;)&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off &#8212; Love the cartoon!</p>
<p>As for art, I have often pondered the topic of creativity on my own blog, but I haven&#8217;t yet explored this question of what makes something art.  For me, there are two dimensions to this answer.</p>
<p>1)  If something is original and fresh yet represents a global truth, an archetype, that resonates with people in a profound way, then certainly that is art.</p>
<p>2)  Additionally, if something speaks to me personally, if it hits a chord, produces some sort of emotion and rings true, regardless of whether or not anyone else feels the same way, then to me, that is also art.</p>
<p><strong>CJ: Hi Lisa, I&#8217;m so glad you liked the cartoon! It still makes me laugh now weeks later, which is the sign of a good cartoon.</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s a great way to look at art. Art (and certainly high art) should be original and reveal something about the world that we haven&#8217;t seen before&#8230; I suppose the only problem is that what one person might call original another might think is a copy or doesn&#8217;t move them. But then quality is always in the eye of the beholder, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m definitely with you on #2. I couldn&#8217;t tell you how many books I&#8217;ve read that I found so beautiful I thought they were a work of art, even if no one else quite got them&#8230; so perhaps that&#8217;s the most important criteria, that it means something to us. If it does then it probably means something to someone else too.</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by. I&#8217;ll pop across to see your blog later. <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </strong></p>
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		<title>By: this time ~ this space &#187; It&#8217;s Art: Sand Fantasy</title>
		<link>http://cjlevinson.com/2008/03/12/what-makes-something-art/#comment-6682</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[this time ~ this space &#187; It&#8217;s Art: Sand Fantasy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cjwriter.wordpress.com/?p=371#comment-6682</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] In one of his blog posts CJ has asked his readers: What makes something art? [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In one of his blog posts CJ has asked his readers: What makes something art? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Lazy Aussie</title>
		<link>http://cjlevinson.com/2008/03/12/what-makes-something-art/#comment-6686</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Lazy Aussie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cjwriter.wordpress.com/?p=371#comment-6686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How about this one mate?

http://theworstofperth.com/2008/03/07/doggy-style-alsation-rampant/

I don&#039;t know what&#039;s shocking about the innocuous cartoon. Some people just like to be offended.

I never really like Hockney, but he did a very interesting doco on perspective. Very very good. I like some of the photo montages he did too. Not so keen on the pale young boys standing by swimming pools stuff though.

&lt;strong&gt;CJ: Now I want to scratch my eyes out! That is one of the weirdest, most disturbing things I&#039;ve ever seen. What is it supposed to be? A joke? Social commentary? Eroticism? A dog&#039;s fantasy? I wouldn&#039;t consider that art, no, but maybe they should submit it for the Turner prize - it&#039;d probably win.

I&#039;ll have to have a look for that documentary; it sounds interesting. I know Hockney was involved in a couple of others as well, particularly one on Henry Geldzahler. I find his early work quite interesting... I&#039;m not so sure about his work from the 80s onwards. I did like &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hockneypictures.com/works_paintings_80_09.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A Walk Around the Hotel Courtyard&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;, though. Something about it reminded me of Picasso.

Thanks for stopping by, LA. It&#039;s going to take me a while to get that painting out of my head! :) If anyone else is interested, &lt;a href=&quot;http://theworstofperth.com/2008/03/07/doggy-style-alsation-rampant/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;click over&lt;/a&gt; and have a look... it&#039;s got my vote for the worst piece of art ever made.&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about this one mate?</p>
<p><a href="http://theworstofperth.com/2008/03/07/doggy-style-alsation-rampant/" rel="nofollow">http://theworstofperth.com/2008/03/07/doggy-style-alsation-rampant/</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s shocking about the innocuous cartoon. Some people just like to be offended.</p>
<p>I never really like Hockney, but he did a very interesting doco on perspective. Very very good. I like some of the photo montages he did too. Not so keen on the pale young boys standing by swimming pools stuff though.</p>
<p><strong>CJ: Now I want to scratch my eyes out! That is one of the weirdest, most disturbing things I&#8217;ve ever seen. What is it supposed to be? A joke? Social commentary? Eroticism? A dog&#8217;s fantasy? I wouldn&#8217;t consider that art, no, but maybe they should submit it for the Turner prize &#8211; it&#8217;d probably win.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to have a look for that documentary; it sounds interesting. I know Hockney was involved in a couple of others as well, particularly one on Henry Geldzahler. I find his early work quite interesting&#8230; I&#8217;m not so sure about his work from the 80s onwards. I did like <em><a href="http://www.hockneypictures.com/works_paintings_80_09.php" rel="nofollow">A Walk Around the Hotel Courtyard</a></em>, though. Something about it reminded me of Picasso.</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by, LA. It&#8217;s going to take me a while to get that painting out of my head! <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  If anyone else is interested, <a href="http://theworstofperth.com/2008/03/07/doggy-style-alsation-rampant/" rel="nofollow">click over</a> and have a look&#8230; it&#8217;s got my vote for the worst piece of art ever made.</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Heather S. Ingemar</title>
		<link>http://cjlevinson.com/2008/03/12/what-makes-something-art/#comment-6681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heather S. Ingemar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cjwriter.wordpress.com/?p=371#comment-6681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brilliant observations here, Chris (CJ?  Which do you prefer?).

I have held for a long time that &quot;art&quot; would be so much better if we put its judgement in the hands of the majority instead of clinging to the cynical words of critics.  In fact, I&#039;ll even go so far as to say that by placing arts education in the hands of critics, we&#039;re killing it in the long run.

And I was just talking about this at work today, in relation to the selection of works for English literature textbooks.  It&#039;s insane, the numbers of people I&#039;ve talked to who say, &quot;Oh, I hate [insert genre or literature form here].  I don&#039;t read that stuff.&quot;  And when asked why, they say &quot;I read [insert corresponding piece here] in high school and couldn&#039;t stand it.&quot;

C&#039;mon folks; stop trying to feed our kids literary pieces with &quot;high critic appeal&quot; to teach them &quot;literature.&quot;  Expose them to more mainstream art, more popular writing, and have them &quot;think critically&quot; about that.  I know this sort of approach would work, if only we could convince the &quot;critical gurus&quot; to accept it.  As a librarian, I see it often: when a kid likes what they&#039;ve read, they&#039;re very eager to tell you all about it.  And I&#039;d bet money that if you asked them to tell how how that work relates to a particular literary idea (that they&#039;ve had explained to them), they could do it, and do it eagerly, with a better retention rate.

But, I think it will be a long time before we&#039;ll ever see such a shift in educational/literature/artistic thinking.  Unfortunately.

As for what makes something &quot;art,&quot; I&#039;d have to say it is something done with an incredible amount of creative skill, that stirs its audience.

Great post.

All the best,
H.

&lt;strong&gt;CJ: Hi Heather, thanks for stopping by. I don&#039;t mind Chris or CJ; I go by both and I tend to use CJ more with my writing, which is why it&#039;s on the blog. But either&#039;s good. ;)

I think you&#039;re right about art being better (or at least more accessible) if the majority judged it. We have an art award in Aus called the Archibald Prize which is highly regarded and it has three prizes; one is awarded by critics, another by museum staff, and the third by the public. The three have never coincided and shows how differently we look at art. But most of the public winners have done well afterwards, so I guess we have good taste!

My only problem is that the public doesn&#039;t always have the knowledge to appreciate a work and I&#039;d hate to see something unappreciated because it&#039;s different. I mean, if you think about all the movies which go to #1, sometimes you get a good one but a lot of them are pretty forgettable... so sometimes critics can be useful. I just wish people wouldn&#039;t rely on them so much; it&#039;s just an opinion but people give them the power to make or break careers.

I couldn&#039;t agree more about genres and education, though... I&#039;ve run up against that brick wall so many times. We all have a favourite genre but not reading something because of one or two books we haven&#039;t liked (or were told we wouldn&#039;t like) doesn&#039;t make sense - and for schools it&#039;s reprehensible. I&#039;m hoping kids will be more open to different genres now; that&#039;s something &lt;em&gt;Harry Potter&lt;/em&gt; has done, made them interested in other worlds again, and many like to see where the original ideas came from as well. Perhaps we&#039;ll see a change as they get older, and with the availability of it online... but it&#039;ll probably still be a long time.

That seems to be the consensus on art; a mix of skill, talent and impact... something that has meaning whether we love it or hate it... who knows, maybe one day a Narcoleptic Romance will be a work of art. I&#039;ve read stranger things. :)&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant observations here, Chris (CJ?  Which do you prefer?).</p>
<p>I have held for a long time that &#8220;art&#8221; would be so much better if we put its judgement in the hands of the majority instead of clinging to the cynical words of critics.  In fact, I&#8217;ll even go so far as to say that by placing arts education in the hands of critics, we&#8217;re killing it in the long run.</p>
<p>And I was just talking about this at work today, in relation to the selection of works for English literature textbooks.  It&#8217;s insane, the numbers of people I&#8217;ve talked to who say, &#8220;Oh, I hate [insert genre or literature form here].  I don&#8217;t read that stuff.&#8221;  And when asked why, they say &#8220;I read [insert corresponding piece here] in high school and couldn&#8217;t stand it.&#8221;</p>
<p>C&#8217;mon folks; stop trying to feed our kids literary pieces with &#8220;high critic appeal&#8221; to teach them &#8220;literature.&#8221;  Expose them to more mainstream art, more popular writing, and have them &#8220;think critically&#8221; about that.  I know this sort of approach would work, if only we could convince the &#8220;critical gurus&#8221; to accept it.  As a librarian, I see it often: when a kid likes what they&#8217;ve read, they&#8217;re very eager to tell you all about it.  And I&#8217;d bet money that if you asked them to tell how how that work relates to a particular literary idea (that they&#8217;ve had explained to them), they could do it, and do it eagerly, with a better retention rate.</p>
<p>But, I think it will be a long time before we&#8217;ll ever see such a shift in educational/literature/artistic thinking.  Unfortunately.</p>
<p>As for what makes something &#8220;art,&#8221; I&#8217;d have to say it is something done with an incredible amount of creative skill, that stirs its audience.</p>
<p>Great post.</p>
<p>All the best,<br />
H.</p>
<p><strong>CJ: Hi Heather, thanks for stopping by. I don&#8217;t mind Chris or CJ; I go by both and I tend to use CJ more with my writing, which is why it&#8217;s on the blog. But either&#8217;s good. <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re right about art being better (or at least more accessible) if the majority judged it. We have an art award in Aus called the Archibald Prize which is highly regarded and it has three prizes; one is awarded by critics, another by museum staff, and the third by the public. The three have never coincided and shows how differently we look at art. But most of the public winners have done well afterwards, so I guess we have good taste!</p>
<p>My only problem is that the public doesn&#8217;t always have the knowledge to appreciate a work and I&#8217;d hate to see something unappreciated because it&#8217;s different. I mean, if you think about all the movies which go to #1, sometimes you get a good one but a lot of them are pretty forgettable&#8230; so sometimes critics can be useful. I just wish people wouldn&#8217;t rely on them so much; it&#8217;s just an opinion but people give them the power to make or break careers.</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more about genres and education, though&#8230; I&#8217;ve run up against that brick wall so many times. We all have a favourite genre but not reading something because of one or two books we haven&#8217;t liked (or were told we wouldn&#8217;t like) doesn&#8217;t make sense &#8211; and for schools it&#8217;s reprehensible. I&#8217;m hoping kids will be more open to different genres now; that&#8217;s something <em>Harry Potter</em> has done, made them interested in other worlds again, and many like to see where the original ideas came from as well. Perhaps we&#8217;ll see a change as they get older, and with the availability of it online&#8230; but it&#8217;ll probably still be a long time.</p>
<p>That seems to be the consensus on art; a mix of skill, talent and impact&#8230; something that has meaning whether we love it or hate it&#8230; who knows, maybe one day a Narcoleptic Romance will be a work of art. I&#8217;ve read stranger things. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </strong></p>
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		<title>By: B0bbyG</title>
		<link>http://cjlevinson.com/2008/03/12/what-makes-something-art/#comment-6683</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[B0bbyG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cjwriter.wordpress.com/?p=371#comment-6683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for that link; I&#039;ve just read &lt;em&gt;AD&lt;/em&gt; from the very start to the end of chapter 10.  You&#039;re right; it&#039;s very powerful.  It reminded me of Marjane Satrapi&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Persepolis&lt;/em&gt;.

&lt;strong&gt;CJ: I read through &lt;em&gt;AD&lt;/em&gt; like that as well. It&#039;s hard to read but it&#039;s one of those works that&#039;s so powerful you still want to read it... the sign of a good work.

I haven&#039;t read &lt;em&gt;Persepolis&lt;/em&gt; but I&#039;ve heard a lot about it; I&#039;ll have to find it. If it&#039;s anything like Spiegelman&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Maus&lt;/em&gt;, it sounds like a must read.&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that link; I&#8217;ve just read <em>AD</em> from the very start to the end of chapter 10.  You&#8217;re right; it&#8217;s very powerful.  It reminded me of Marjane Satrapi&#8217;s <em>Persepolis</em>.</p>
<p><strong>CJ: I read through <em>AD</em> like that as well. It&#8217;s hard to read but it&#8217;s one of those works that&#8217;s so powerful you still want to read it&#8230; the sign of a good work.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read <em>Persepolis</em> but I&#8217;ve heard a lot about it; I&#8217;ll have to find it. If it&#8217;s anything like Spiegelman&#8217;s <em>Maus</em>, it sounds like a must read.</strong></p>
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